Biography Daniel Schmachtenberger Daniel Schmachtenberger's central interest is comprehensive civilization (re)design: developing adequate capacities for collective values generation, sense-making, and choice-making, in service to coordinated conscious sustainable evolutiontowards a world commensurate with our higher ideals and potentials. I was really excited about that. Where you emphasize the word rat, rather than saying the Democratic Party. Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:27:23 And then they're like, Well, why the fuck are you figuring out these pieces of tech? Mostly. So if leaving the whale alive in the ocean confers no economic advantage on me, but killing it and selling it as meat is a million dollars of economic advantage. Eric's been taught to turn the other cheek to make sure that you de escalate a conflict. And the most awesome thing about the current system is we don't even have to deal with protesters with tear gas or beanbags or whatever. And you tell them that they're horrible and you ruin them publicly. Is that a good way of phrasing it? Every branch of the decision tree has gotten hyper weird. Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:26:05 That is, Daniel is searching for something like the wisdom needed to re engineer a non rival risk or anti rivalries society to live in harmony with its newfound godlike powers. Obviously, it's like, Okay, so what is the incentive for someone to agree with us? And then you just had another one that's slipping my brain population. right center for humane technology, consumer stuff, like I think, I think a lot of people know that. So we did have a dirty tricks unit inside of the United States that needs to be known broadly, which was pretty thoroughly investigated in the mid 1970s. If the lion catches the gazelle, the gazelle dies. That if we fucked things up here, it's doing well within the timeframes that I think we'll look things up on Earth. Well, so this is the thing I think. And then we can engineer on top of that, atoms is different than bits, atoms have a some somewhat finite field to them, bits fields effectively infinite. I think I heard that somebody asked Matt Damon, whether he enjoyed being famous. Daniel Schmachtenberger is a social philosopher and founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue. And so you had to loosen the bonds to your fellow citizen. You know that there are some weird arguments but what you never lost the ability to kill them. 2. Yeah. They'll embrace what you've said, and the same spirit. Well, maybe I'm just stuck somewhere. And I think that's really good lingo because, like the, I can't, I can't lie to physics and have it reward me for it. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm just trying to guess ahead. So the incentive of the new station is to make stuff that is both in flaming and scary and entertaining and whatever will engage people spend a lot of time watching it. And anybody who's not looking at the fact that there is no non weird branch of the decision tree is missing the story of who we are and what time it is in human history. 'autoplay': 0, And it really matters for when we think about resource scarcity because the resources that people need to deal with the first part, the survival part are not that much right, actually. I understand obviously stupidly wrong, when your ability to demonstrate your power is to go out in the public square and say the dumbest most recent Nicolas, most obviously incorrect thing you can think of. So nobody has an idea that Xena philic restriction lists might be a plurality or a majority in the country. player.playVideo(); The thing that that you're coupling to, which I think is very interesting is that nobody has seen a 10,000 fold increase in Orca efficiency as a predator. Appreciate that. People always think about? player.loadVideoById({ It seems to be opposed to our policies. Daniel Schmachtenberger 3:18:30 Well, let me try it again. It there's a cost to a whole ecosystem into The people into the future generations will be affected by the pollution, but I don't pay the cost. And it's important to say, obviously, if I have a situation where valuation is at least largely proportional to scarcity, then I have a basis to continue to manufacture artificial scarcity. And something pretty unique about humans is how good we are at being able to add intention to signal. My colleague Daniel Schmachtenberger, is both working on similar goals and has arrived at a similar worldview of how the pieces fit together. He's literally a million times better at navigating the intricacies of this landscape than I am and he's not going to follow someone's instructions blindly . And then civilizational decay is that a new civilization is formed coming out, coming out of a war or after migration or through a famine or after like some really difficult thing. So there are Buddhists in India, there are Buddhists, there's a lot of Buddhists in Nepal. That said, I also can't figure out a way in which we just become more powerful in our ability to extract our ability to confuse our ability to mete out harm from the strong to the weak. Our ubiquitous economists have hidden behind the mask of technocrats working for the public good while merely pretending to practice their own profession. yeah, if we think about two groups of people. And also, not just epistemic bias, but epistemic inadequacy, coming from whatever domain specialty looking at something that's so much more complex than any domain specialty by itself is going to do a good job of I think you speak well to why there are not more different ideas, trying to figure things out is you end up getting some kind of dominant system that is this automatic self perpetuating, and so then it's you, Eric Weinstein 17:56 In, in evolution, we see rivalry everywhere. One of the things that I say that I think people find interesting is, is that I believe the National Academy of Sciences in the National Science Foundation effectively conspired against American scientists and engineers on behalf of scientific and engineering employers. It's not about you know, power dynamics, it's about it just immediately runs into one of our cherished, nonsensical points of view. one actually knew formulating deciding to work over the class. I see a decision tree, in which I think, a society wide level, I can't accept any of the major branches. You know, Steven Pinker tells us that we were in a much more peaceful world. And, you know, less so in some areas than in other areas. And the idea that we would be wise enough to stop the arms race when I can hear in my mind's ear, all these people saying, Wow, chicken littles added again, everything's great. So let's just look at information tech for a moment. So there's either not enough or there's not going to be enough certain point. And then it did. So I don't want to get into that but fanaticism exists. Yes. I don't know the answer. We, we have more of a reason to be careful about our land use rare, rare resources. Eric Weinstein 1:16:22 And if you believe surprising, yeah. And then there's another one about if you give people education. But we can do we can We can do much worse things than that, with exponentially increasing technological power. Daniel Schmachtenbergers central interest is comprehensive civilization (re)design: developing adequate capacities for collective values generation, sense-making, and choice-making, in service to coordinated conscious sustainable evolutiontowards a world commensurate with our higher ideals and potentials. Now the idea behind game B is something like the following. The throughline of his interests has to do with improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal. I never heard anything like this. Well, Twitter and this is just as an example, has now refined their terms of service to broaden their definition of harm itself to address in their words, and I quote, content that goes directly against guidance from authoritative sources of global and local public health information. I mean, what if it is these triage deaths which are actually closer to negligent homicide than mere viral losses that are actually terrifying our leaders into draconian action rather than the total Have dead as they say. }, Daniel Schmachtenberger Now I'm gonna ask a very difficult question. So you have, you have very complex dynamics with, with many species interacting. But imagine if we could create a situation where there was no incentive for disinformation. So what matters is you having access to the shopping cart doesn't decrease my access. We also don't want an arms race on bio weapons or nanotech. So there is no example anywhere in biology of a system that can that has the kind of asymmetry relative to its whole environment that we have. I agree. And then you wait for the collapse to come. Now what could explain this odd state of affairs? Which is, which is this thing we think of as politics, right? And so it's great fun for Republicans to say, yes, the democrat con, you know, whoa, that doesn't sound good. If you're not an evolutionary theorist, I'm not, but we can do our best. by the way, a lot of the people that I think of as being the smartest, most interesting people have not bought into this magical thinking. Together with the idea that there are realms beyond somatic pleasure that most of us spend our entire lives not knowing what it's like to break through the status and wealth and security games and effectively. and she doesn't want to spend her whole life pregnant. I didn't like it. And there was a part of me that cared about status. Yeah. Ethics and academia and whatever to basically say, the, the behaviors that support the system are good. And I, I do, quite honestly take some hope, in that. The throughline of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal. Daniel Schmachtenberger 34:22 So we keep making more and more positive and interesting things. And I have to say the least fun part. Daniel Schmachtenberger Expand search. So we keep getting an increase in quality of life, but not by increasing the quality, the quantity of the pie and the quantity of people consuming it. A group of people who share a passion for something they do, Social gatherings which people engage in one-to-one conversation with a stranger, Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it, An unplanned journey through a urban landscape, Dialogue is a disciplined form of conversation, From a dialogic perspective, change results from transformational conversations, Speech is a bad medium for communicating information - so watch lectures at home, Short, regular, peer-to-peer team discussions, There is nothing more boring than a report-out, An experimental space for exploring the power and possibilities of conversations, From annual performance reviews to on-going performance conversations, Learn from your peers; someone has already done it, An approach to behavioral and social change, It is just a coffee, but at the same time it is much more, A structured way for a group of peers to criticize proposals or ideas, Brainstorming the opposite of what you want, Dinner and a stimulating conversation with a stranger, A meeting in which a report is made and participants have an opportunity to ask questions, A conversational process intended to facilitate open and intimate discussion, Members of a community care about each other, We naturally take responsibility for the people and the things that we care about, Where everyone in a community practices leadership, We all have the freedom to choose if we choose to, Jewish religious term for derogatory speech, Leadership is a practice not a position of authority, To nurture community, we need to move from buy-in to ownership, To understand each other's perspectives well enough to accept them, Basic tacit assumptions about how the world works, Shifting perspective changes the conversation, Without trust our civilization would collapse, Invitation is a fundamental way of being in a community, The only real way to disarm your enemy is to listen to them, Working together rather than manipulating each other, A metaphor for the type of conversation you have in a Caf, In some ways it is not new but in others it isn't, It began on September 5th, 2002 at the Strand Palace Hotel in London, The outcomes are what you take away in your head, The Knowledge Caf is a highly adaptable tool, Knowledge Cafs and Communities of Practice **, The differences between the Knowledge Caf and the World Caf, Knowledge Caf Principle: Conversation is King, Knowledge Caf Principle: Create a phycological safe space, Knowledge Caf Principle: Everyone has an equal voice, Knowledge Caf Principle: No preconceived outcomes, Knowledge Caf Principle: Dialogue not debate, Be prepared to emerge a slightly different person, Knowledge Caf Principle: Engage in small groups, Real conversation takes place in small groups, Knowledge Caf Principle: Preserve the flow, Conversational flow should not be interrupted, In a Knowledge Caf there are no table hosts, Knowledge Caf: Small group conversations, The small group conversations are the heart of the Caf, Knowledge Caf: Sharing actionable insights, One idea, lesson learned or insight taken away from a Caf, Knowledge Cafs should be thoughtfully designed, Every Knowledge Caf should have a clear purpose, There are a number of different Knowledge Caf players, A Knowledge Caf can last from one to three hours, You don't have to call it a Knowledge Caf, Knowledge Caf: Deciding who to invite **, People should not be coerced to participate in any way, Knowledge Caf: Ideal number of participants **, The ideal number of participants is between 12 and 24, Knowledge Caf: Triggering the conversation **, There are a number of ways in which you can trigger the conversation, Knowledge Caf: Setting the context with video **, A short video makes a good way to set the context for a Caf conversation, The ideal small group size is three or four, The Knowledge Caf works best for between twelve to twenty-four people, You do not need a lot of resources to run a Caf, The outcomes are what you take away in your head - note taking is a distraction, Real-time capture of the Caf conversations in pictures, words, and color, Don't let background music detract from the conversations, Introduction: Knowledge Caf Variations **, There are many variations of the Knowledge Caf concept, Espresso has more caffeine per unit volume than most coffee beverages, Debate sharpens up the important aspects of the issue under discussion, A Caf style adaptation of the Ritual Dissent process, Making regular meetings more conversational, Small round tables are best that sit 3 or 4 are best, Knowledge Caf: No flip charts or butcher paper, They get in the way of the conversation - avoid them, Cafs can even be run in lecture theatres, Not the best of environments but possible, Introduction: Knowledge Caf Applications, The Knowledge Caf is as much a state of mind as it is a fixed process, A reading group, reading circle or book discussion club. But I think that's actually like one of these fundamental things in terms of, you're saying, like, why don't we have group sensemaking is because you have a, you have a self perpetuating system that includes the self perpetuation of the means that support the system. Daniel Schmachtenberger 2:27:51 Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:53:37 So that's one of the questions that I would ask you. So you talk about retro conjugation. Eric's been taught self restraint. Have you ever talked to Daniel schmuck burger? Daniel Schmachtenberger 2:14:32 All right, with that the floor is yours. And so we've never figured out how to solve for that class. And you have another idea here about development is kind of unused, and we could do something far greater. mostly they don't have countries anymore. Do you have anything better than waiting for absolutely horrendous things with the with visuals that that hit? Eric Weinstein 2:21:54 And this is why competition is good and drives innovation. And of course, animals will use a tool, but they don't evolve better tools or develop better tools, the way that we develop better tools and the distinction of technology creation or tool making as a process by which new stuff comes to exist as opposed to evolution as a process by which new stuff comes to exist, is at the heart of a lot of the things that I think about here because I think it fundamentally changes our thinking on like social Darwinism and why markets are kind of a viable or inexorable idea is if we think about evolution as a process by which new things come about, defined by mutation, survival selection, and then mate selection within an environmental niche, and then of course, there's recursion on niche creation. Daniel Schmachtenberger 17:01 Because his experience of playing is so beautiful that he doesn't want to cheapen it by having somebody else hear it and move into a performative place. but all the subtle versions, right, which is most of the signal that is coming to me is just bouncing off of stuff and reflecting and doesn't have that much disinformation. Go to see kids who grew up in an Amazonian tribe or you know, some very different conditioning environment, you'll see very different types of human behavior. So we make the agreement while secretly defecting on in the basement while spying on them and trying to confuse their spouse. Well, I traveled I am from San Francisco to do this. Some percentage of those people referred to this world that we have now as game a. It's very unnatural. I just, I hear that voice. Existential Risks An existential risk is anything that can cause the extinction of humanity. Eric Weinstein 44:10 Well, here's the awkward part. Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:17:11 Because we make propositions where both voting for it and voting against it suck for somebody for something because they're based on theory of trade offs, where we didn't even tried to figure out what a good proposition for everybody would be in the first place. I can misinformed without even lying. So you'll get a exponential curve on intelligence, which also then means an exponential curve on its capacity to optimize whatever narrow metric it's optimizing. And so this is one necessary dynamic, but this already doesn't look like the model that you were mentioning of society hobbling along, mostly the same, because that's actually really, really different. I think it's well phrased, does it buy us anything? And in fact, it is the first few tastes of these things that convince them that there must be no limit to how wonderful the world can be, if only that can be mine. Eric Weinstein 49:36 It's not experienced at scale. and hope Okay, so think about this. No impossible foundational axioms are all the wrong axioms. We can look at this as kind of a Marxist class type conflict. So I think our intuitions are all bad if we haven't spent time really questioning these things, and then also looking at cultural outliers, because I don't think any of this is inexorable. The best way to engage people is to hold conversations, not meetings. And I want other people on other branches because we need to fan out and start exploring at least start to care. Natural and sexual selection must be assumed to have engineered us for a cycle of competition and misery which we might term game a played read of tooth and claw under the law of the jungle. This video (see the link) is an example of Daniel Schmachtenberger using Pilpul(pseudoscience), GSRRM-Critique (Psychologizing), Baiting into Hazard (the false promise of freedom from influence by superior competitors, Undermining (not providing a comparable or competitive solution that's equally testable). ) And I thought, wow, first strike you teaching your child to strike first. I'm finding that what people are now rivalrous about has changed a lot. And given that I don't think we can stop the progress of tech. We haven't seen that behavior. HomeGrown Humans - Daniel Schmachtenberger - Existential Risk. I think a lot of this comes down to magical thinking because of the non use of nuclear weapons against humans since 1945, I think that one thing if 911 had been a nuclear Attack rather than a weird conventional attack, we would know where we were in human history. obviously birth rate is higher where there's poverty and we might lose some kids, right? Eric Weinstein 1:07:44 And the idea that you can be both Xena philic fascinated and interested in the world's cultures and want immigration to your country restricted, and that this is the generic position that the average person holds this position is a story that appears nowhere. Eric Weinstein 1:22:31 So hundred percent. Those are a couple examples. And I do think that rivalry in a world of exponential tech does self terminate. Daniel is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue. We don't have people competing for cancer carriers that aren't sharing information with each other. But the resources that people need to deal with the mating part is more than the other guy historically, which is why the guy with 150 foot yacht might feel bad when the 200 foot yacht. If there is exactly one parcel of land, which has a unequivocally the best view? Eric Weinstein 1:31:42 And they are all abstract pattern replicators rather than instantiated pattern replicators, right, so it means rather than genes. That they get, they get, they increase their per day as they increase their productive capacity, the environment increases its capacity to respond to the productive capacity symmetrically. When looking at concerning AI risk scenarios, one of them is this, you know, Kind of funding idea of a paperclip Maximizer paperclip is representative of any widget. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. Eric Weinstein 2:04:31 I think that that would not be sufficient on its own, but it's necessary. Where you then have more access to be creative, but the things that you create, you aren't creating for you to get more money and get ahead, because you already have access to all the things that you want. Well, and furthermore, you know, lions are not the only even even if lions are a top some predator hierarchy, one lion and 20 hyenas is not a reputation for the recipe for lion happiness. And one of the things he taught his son was never let the other guy get the first punch. grimace. So my mind wanders to the second order question of why it would be so difficult to sketch a straightforward narrative to guide us. And I think that what you're talking about. So my guess is that even if I guessed wrong again, we could get another 50 years out of it sooner or later, either something like what you're talking about a change in the basic structure of rival risks into interaction. status. And then ronald reagan came writing in. Our rival risks game theoretic structures, some in group competing against somehow group and we can play coordination games where we'll coordinate with each other if it's more advantageous, but we reserve the right to defect and go zero sum on each other if that's more advantageous. Yeah. I mean, look, there was no suicide bombing in the modern world before the 1980s. Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:32:44 Well, it is what I think these two generations the baby boomers and the silent generation, may become best known for, in the future, that this was a period in which new corrective ideas had to be suppressed. That's a fascinating story. Eric Weinstein describes Daniel this way: "Daniel in particular favors the wisdom and design branch of the human fate decision tree Daniel is searching for something like the wisdom needed .
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